Indie Creators – Part 6

I came across a forum of standup comedians sharing this advice from Comedian Ari Shaffir on some basic tips of how to succeed as a creator:

It’s a 4 hour very rambly (he was a bit high) podcast but I found some interesting tidbits in there.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:—part-4/

Part 5:—part-5/

Don’t be fooled by the inevitable temporary success of hacks. There are going to be shittier people in you that you know are bad. And they’re going to get ahead.

Do not start thinking like, well, I gotta do what they do. That is a bump on the road that they’re getting ahead. Or they’re outliers. There are managers that steal from their clients left and right. Very Cat. All I hear about is how much he steals from people. But he slipped through the cracks and he’s a successful manager. You will have guys like that that either will get short-term success in doing happy stuff. Or will get long-term success in doing happy stuff. And just being bad. You’ve seen guys like that. They’re not good. And it upsets you. Stop even worrying about it. But definitely don’t change what you do based on them. Those are outliers. And also they might get something a little bit and then everyone discovers, oh, you’re terrible. And then they go away. But you’re stuck because you’ve only been in comedy for two years. Going, well, that guy’s also been in comedy for two years and he’s getting ahead. So what am I doing wrong? Nothing. Because if you look at it over a 20-year run, that guy is going to be selling used Hyundai’s. In a year and a half or in five years. And so if you have that place in 20 years and not looking back, you’ll be like, oh, I wouldn’t worry at all what he does. He’s just some guy who has a regular job now. You would look at the guys who have made it. So don’t worry about the shitty guys. Just don’t even worry. Like, whatever. Almost if you were just like, if that guy can do it being shitty, then I can be good and do even better. Put even better stuff out there. What do you mean, Barry Katz stole from his clients? He would pay people their money. He would just not pay them and then pay them way, way late. Months and months later. When people were like, dude, I need to pay my rent. You owe me $1,000. You need to give that to me. He would have all the checks go to him and then he would cut. This is my commercial agent dollars, which I’d rather. It’s easier. If I get paid $100 for a commercial, let’s just say, the check gets sent to him. He would cash that check, write me a new check for $90 and send that to me. So I’ll still get the 90% But if it was Barry Katz, he would just hold that $100 check for six months while you’re waiting for the $90 check. Like, oh yeah, I’m sorry. It’s in the mail and not paid. People left him. But new people signed with him. So he’ll be okay. He started a company. He’ll be okay. But don’t worry about that. They’re doing it the wrong way. So you don’t have to model yourself after that. That’s definitely something to think about. Don’t… Man, it’s like you want to be good. I know you want to be good. And you look at those people and say it’s unfair what they’re doing. How can they get ahead? This doesn’t seem right. And just know, yes, it is not fair. It is not, like what Ralphie said, it is not just about merit. It is not just, like Maron said this once, it’s not a meritocracy. It’s not about who’s best. You want it to be. But at some point, after you see 15 people going like, another guy fucking gets ahead, he’s not doing it, it’s not… Then realize, well, it’s not just about that. So all you’re doing, there is no making it. If you keep that in mind, that there is no making it.

All you’re doing is trying to maximize the amount of money and creative opportunities you can get that you want to do. That’s all you’re trying to do.

So a guy like Chappelle now will not be in a sitcom. He’s just trying to maximize what he can do based on what he wants to do. So he just wants to fuck around on stage now. That’s fine. Guys like Doug Stanhope are never going to make as much money as… I was going to say Tosh, but that’s wrong because he’s actually very funny. As, I don’t know, someone more mainstream and happy. Larry the Cable Guy. Okay, sure. A lot of people don’t respect that guy. So let’s go with that. Let’s say, I think he has funny jokes sometimes. The puppet. Yeah, that’s another one, but I’m okay with his jokes too sometimes. It’s he performs for the audience that comes to see him. There’s nothing wrong with that. So you don’t have to waste time thinking, well, fucking puppet dude gets 80 million hits. Like, yeah. But I was never going to do puppets. So that’s okay. I was never going to play rock music. So I’m not mad at the black keys for Staple Center. That’s not the kind of creative stuff I want to do. I want to do jokes. Well, top shelf of that is not Staple Center. Top shelf of that is a club or a theater. You know what I mean? A normal top shelf. So don’t worry about the other people. So Larry the Cable Guy, what Stanhope is doing is he’s just trying to create the kind of sociological comedy that he does. You know, the dark, whatever. He puts it out and he’s trying to maximize the amount of people who come see him and the amount of things he can do. If he wants to start a podcast, he wants to do it his way. So he doesn’t worry about those other people because it’s irrelevant to him. It’s got nothing to do with him. If anything, it’s like, well, if that guy can make it with some shitty… The opportunities are there. Chuck Taylors have survived. They have been sold over and over again. It’s always, what’s it called? Converse. But the Converse name just keeps getting sold and they’ll never bury Chuck Taylors. Because it will make money in a small amount of people. It’s not everybody. Jordans were way bigger for a while. For a long time. You know, regular Nikes and stuff, they’ll sell more. But Chuck Taylors will continue to sell to hipsters. So they cost $5 to make and you can sell them for $25. And they will continue to make money. Chuck Taylors don’t care if Nike is bigger. They just continue to be in business. So that’s what you’re doing. You’re trying to get your own creative juices out there. So don’t even worry about them. Look at what they did right. Look at what somebody who has no talent, look at what they’ve done right. Look at who they’ve talked to and say, I’ll just take that from them. You know what I mean? But what are the Lakers doing right? They fucking, I hate the Lakers. But they’re doing something right. They made a deal with the NBA a long time ago to fucking get the best draft picks. Whatever it was. I think delusion. That’s what I think. But whatever. They own a big market team. They’re smart. So, you know, Pittsburgh can’t do that. But other teams, like, use what they do for your better. Fucking Oakland. Moneyball. They produced a winner with not a good roster. And the other, the Red Sox and all them, they didn’t start going to the Yankees. They just started going like, oh well, you know, they’re doing it with not talented people. They’re like, no. They’re doing it with not talented people. They’re doing it with untalented people. So how can we use what they do to better our team? What techniques can you pull from them?

Don’t worry about hating people. There’s something nice about everybody. Especially the successes. There’s something very clear. And if they have no talent, then you can narrow it down to what made them famous. What made them successful? Is it the network? What is it? Whatever it is, you can narrow it down way easier. If they’re talented and they’re networkers, then which part did it for you? And maybe it’s both.

There’s something else Duncan said. The people you see on your way up are also the people you’re going to see on your way down.

And that just goes to what I’m saying about just be friendly with people. These other comedians are not your enemies. That’s what I thought for so long. Like, fuck those guys. These are, we are all colleagues. We are all doing the same thing. So we really will have ups and downs. You’ll have that show where you’ll be on for five years. Then you’ll be doing commercial auditions. You think you want people going like, how does it feel now? You’re back with me. That feels shitty. I’m sure. But like, they’ll be cool with you if you never angered them in the first place. If you were just a cool guy that was around the scene then. They’ll be like, oh, how you been, man? I haven’t seen you in a while. And that’ll be the only thing. And it won’t be this horrible negative moment. So just don’t start fights for no reason. There’s no winning. You’re not fighting for honor or justice. You’re not freeing black people from the south. You’re just doing jokes. So if somebody is doing jokes not to your level of what you like, they’re not doing anything wrong to you or anyone. They’re just not good. That’s okay. Coddle those people. Help them out. Help them be better. Maybe they will get better. But they’ll duck me around. There’s no reason to be shitty. Shit on fucking some agent who doesn’t represent. Whatever. You know what I mean? We’re all in the same boat. You want to separate yourself even more and say, oh, no, only our group is better. But that’s a good enough group, comedians. We’re all the same. Even the fucking shitty homeless potluckers are still just trying to do what we do. We’re not better than them. You know? Just try to remember that. The fight is not there. The fight is networks that won’t let you put on real comedy under the network because they’re trying to please fucking Housewives in Arkansas. That’s the enemy. Their way of thinking. Those people are never going to be my fans anyway. They were never going to listen to what I had to say. So why am I stopping from saying the word shit? Because that person who’s never going to like me is not going to like that even more. That’s the people you should be enemies with. People who are stopping you from being creatively free. Not other comics. TSA agents. TSA agents. Absolutely. That’s an enemy. Here’s another thing he said. The clear stuff that forms around the tip of your cock prior to intercourse is known as pre-cum. Was that Duncan Trussell? That was Duncan Trussell, yes. Okay. So here’s Maron’s thing. So that’s pretty much what I have to say. If you have any more questions, I’ll listen to it totally.

But let me do a couple more of these. Maron said, if you have talent, explore it in as many ways as possible, i.e. writing, making movies, acting.

Putting all your eggs in a stand-up basket is crazy and delusional. I’m not saying don’t do it, but know that. I think most of them do now anyway, like you do. And he said maybe we should talk about some of these old guys that hang around here that are nothing but comics and haven’t gone anywhere. You can see them on the line-ups, the fucking 55-year-olds. Very bad. Absolutely. That’s a good name. Yeah, where it’s like, what are you doing? Does this be your angle? Just to get spots at the store? No, it’s that so you can get ahead. You want to go to the Montreal Comedy Festival, not so you can go to the Montreal Comedy Festival. You want to go there for what it’s going to give you. So like Nick Husev had this problem where they started this show called the Unrepresented Show in Montreal, which I would have loved if they had done that when I was trying to go. I would have loved it because that’s all I wanted out of Montreal. I just wanted to get a manager and an agent. And so they’re all there, so they’ll see you do this new faces show, so it would be worth it. And so then I said, hey Nick, how about you do this unrepresented show instead of New Faces? And he was torn because he was so set on I got to do New Faces, I got to do New Faces. And then suddenly he’s like, well, the thing you wanted out of New Faces is now available in this other thing. But he’s like, but I still want to do New Faces. But I’m like, why? Because so I can get a manager and an agent. Yeah, I guess I can get it from that. I’m like, that’s what you want out of it. And who cares what you made as your intention five years ago? None of that matters. Just get what you want to get. Use it as steadism. Here being in the comedy store, that’s just supposed to make you a better comic. So a lot of people will never get in here. That’s not to say that you can stop being a better comic. You have to figure out other ways to get up. Even the people that are here should still go out to other places and go out. Use as much day time as you can. This place isn’t going to do it for you. It just was once a really big thing. The Tonight Show used to be a launching ground. But now it’s just a thing you do. Like I said, I saw somebody on the Tonight Show showcase and get failed by Mitzi a few days later. So it’s like it didn’t help him do anything other than short term. Your parents see you. Those things can help a little bit. Their parents see you and say, oh you’re doing something. Okay, we’ll send you more money. But really it doesn’t matter. It’s not the end goal. So just doing stand up is exactly what you’re really going to want to do in the long term. If it’s not, and really think about it, it’s probably not. It’s probably just expressing yourself creatively. That’s what you’re going to want to do. So really you think stand up is the easiest way. It’s just me and a microphone. It is a very pure way. There’s other ways to get it done. There’s stuff you can do in a script that you cannot do on stage. Sketches. You can do sketches you can’t do on stage. It’s you. That means there’s situations you can’t express on stage, but you can express through other actors and video. But you don’t get that payoff of that drug feeling of like a crowd laughing. Maybe. Yeah, absolutely. That’s better. But then look at Chappelle’s show. Those are sketches he made in front of nobody laughing, but then he presented them to people who laughed. But Jim Carrey started saying that he wasn’t going to do stand up anymore because the money was better in movies and he could reach a lot more people. He could make five million people laugh instead of even five thousand. He’s like there’s no comparison at all. Just kill them in front of all these people. Yeah, you don’t get the immediate payoff. But that doesn’t mean you have to stop doing stand up. You have to do stand up as you’re fucking writing and doing these other things. As you’re shooting stuff. So let me ask you, for you then, is your annual a show?

Are you trying to get a show? Or do you just do stand up? Man, a show would help you get more fans to come watch you on stage. It would help your draw.

When Dave Attell hasn’t done a show in a few years, his draw starts to dwindle. And you will see him do a show like Insomniac and push it back up. Insomniac was a really cool show and I really liked it. And it was something he wanted to do because this would be a creative fun thing to do. And in doing that creative fun thing, he also got his draw higher. So he would do more shows and get more money and fill up audiences more on the road. Or in New York or LA. Then he did the Gong show, which I’ve got to assume was not what he really wanted to do. But he’s like I’ve got to get back on TV so people know who I am. So a show for that reason absolutely helps your draw. But if you’re just on some show, if you’re just like seventh lead of some drama, some TNT drama, then it could help you with anything but money. And the money would be okay. But I heard Callan recently turned down one of those things. His stand up career has just taken off. He’s like do you want to lock yourself up for 20 weeks a year, shoot some drama for 20 grand? Or do you want to be on the road making 5 grand a week, but doing what you want to do and having complete freedom? But if you could be on Seinfeld, that would be hilarious as fuck. You’d want to do that. That’s a funny thing to be a part of. Like does Kumail draw it all from Franklin and Bash? Doubtful. Very doubtful. But what he probably will draw from is that Cartoon Network show that he’s on. He’ll probably get more fans from that. And from web videos and being a part of the scene. After a while people will discover you from doing podcasts, from doing videos on people’s things. Just like I said about Dave Attell, how eventually you got to know him. People will eventually get to know you. The more winners you put out there, the more people who are attracted to your aesthetic, your type of comedy, they will start to like you. And you’ll get fans. And then you do a show and it’s just more people. It’s also 25 to 50 grand a week. And at any of your stages, how can you turn that down? That’s a lot of money. You do that for a year and you’re fucking set. In that I would do that, but now I wouldn’t take a writing job that would pay me a little more than stand up. So then I couldn’t do stand up. No, I wouldn’t do that now. But I’m in a better place now where I can afford to turn that down. But at some time I was like that would have been great for me. But also right now I won’t MC for somebody in Minnesota for a week. Because I can do better spots, but you probably would. Because it would be good for where you are now. Yeah, the show is fine. It’s a great way to get your name out there. But if you’re on some like Franklin Abash type show, Kumail, continue to run one of the hottest rooms in the city. You know, at Nerd Melt. And he continued to be a cool part of a cool scene in LA. And he’s funny. He’s very funny. He kept working on his stand up. So that’s just a day job for him. A lot of you guys have day jobs, right? It’s like just because it’s on TV doesn’t mean you put more of your thought into it. He’ll learn his lines, I’m sure. But he’s not fretting over something went wrong on Franklin Abash. He’s fretting on not being able to finish an ending to this joke. That’s what bothers him. Although that rarely happens. He’s a fucking good writer. Who else has questions? Okay, wait. Here’s what a smart man said about those people. I said have them come in to talk. I’m making these people be afraid of what they’re going to become. And he goes, yeah, but these people are delusional. I don’t know about you guys, but they’re very diamond types. And he goes, you won’t see it that way. I gave examples of people that didn’t take initiative and just stayed lazy and did only stand up and end up blockled. No one thinks this will happen to them.

Most of the smarter guys I started with became writers when they realized they weren’t going to be one of the seven to ten stand ups that actually make a good living at any given period of time.

And he said whatever. It’s all a roll of your dice with all your life. And that’s what it is really. You’re just guessing. There’s no right way to do it. There’s no wrong way to do it. So you’re just trying to get ahead as best you can. Like a lot of stand ups to start and stand up and then take a period where they become writers and they come out of that and become anything like Bill Burr. And then I mean, just like it for a bit. What just like did it for a bit. It’s just another way to express yourself, just like this podcast. You can get better at comedic presence by doing these other things. If you’re writing all the time, you will be better at writing jokes, writing jokes, the part of stand up. So if you’re writing jokes for other people, you’ll get better at it. It’s tough to have to give them away, you know, but you’ll just get better at forming a joke. You know what it would look like just formulaically.

Here’s what else Duncan said later. Because if you find yourself getting a big head or big head, think of Jeff Richards.

If you start thinking you get a big head, if you start thinking like I’m so great, he did. I’m on someone SNL or on that TV and now he’s like struggling to find a way to live. That’s what I mean. But on the way up and the way down to it. Now, he was nice to everybody, but he got he definitely got a big head. He was like, I’m a star. You asked me what he says. I didn’t appreciate it. You what I asked him the other day. What you took from me is I didn’t appreciate it when I had it. Oh, yeah. Because I just didn’t like you had a limo after every show. Yeah. He just like you just felt famous and he didn’t have to work hard. But if you feel like you’re still struggling, you will continue to work. Bill Burr had a show. Does everybody remember the show Townies? Heard of it. Nobody remembers it. It was like six weeks that it went on. It was with that girl from. Pizza place, right? Yeah, they worked at a bar. It was with a chick from all those 80s movies. The Red Hair. Ringo. Yeah, she was a star they were trying to promote and then Jenna Elfman became the star from it. That was like, oh, who’s that girl? Bill Burr was on it and every once in a while my introduction for him like you guys know him from Townies. But so the show got canceled. He moved to L.A. over at the show got canceled. This was. Let’s say 15 years ago. And he was like, all right, now the two options are stay in L.A. and try to do it or what he ended up doing was went back to New York and just buried himself back and stand up. He worked out every night and use the little notoriety he had off a show that was on for, you know, however many weeks. And he just worked the fuck out and he got to become a really good comic by throwing himself back into the grind. The other option would be to say, no, I’m a star now. I don’t have to go do workout sets because I’m a star and I’m very funny. And that’s when you get guys like Chris Rock who haven’t been funny in 10 years because they don’t know what good is anymore. And I think it’s hard for them because they can’t put themselves in the situation that you guys can. You guys have this ability to go to an audience where nobody knows who you are. So you get a completely real reaction to your stand up. They’re looking at you, they’re making their ideas based on that, but they’re not going like, oh, I already know this guy from movies and TV. I already like him. So I’m not going to give him an honest response. They don’t have that anymore. And that’s why they become what they become. There’s no more struggle and everyone says, oh, you’re great every single time. You get a big head. That is the worst thing you can have for stand up. You can say I’m funnier than this guy and this guy, but you got to almost always say that I am not as funny as I can be. And if you just keep having that, it’ll be way better for you overall. I’m talking about long term. It’ll be way better for you.

He also said it’s no longer about getting on TV.

Thank God because he never could. And that’s sort of good. There’s ways to go around. John LeJoy was already selling out places and he was just doing YouTube videos. I’ve never been on TV. Realistically, never. But I can go up in different rooms now around the country. There’s other people too. There’s just never Reggie Watts. He did it for himself. There’s ways around it. That used to be the only way in and you have these gatekeepers who have to decide. But that’s not the way anymore. So just keep moving forward. And if that could be a way, like you said, absolutely, that could be a way. If you land a part in a sitcom, if you become Kramer or the tall guy on Everybody Loves Ray or I don’t know what’s on TV now. Whatever. No, but like a comedy that’s funny. Modern Family. Modern Family, yeah. If that gay guy is not gay and wanted to do stand-up, who was the stand-up? Always Sunny. Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Yeah, if those guys wanted to do stand-up, that would help their stand-up careers. Being on a show like that. I feel like Thomas Lennon kind of got into stand-up after he was doing all his sketch stuff in Reader Night Alone. Yeah, it gives you a draw where people will come see you. And he’s been writing forever so you know he can do it. Yeah, the Broken Lizard guys just did it for themselves. We’ll make our own movies and now they’re doing stand-up. But even if you were stand-up before, if you get on something funny that reads as funny, it will help your draw in any aspect. People will say, I like that guy. Not everybody. But here’s what I compare it to. Remember the first time you saw Saturday Night Live? You weren’t aware it existed and then you get like 10 or 11 or 12 and you have to stay up late. And you watched it and you were like, whoa, this is way different than these sitcoms, these typical boring sitcoms. You have a few that are good sitcoms. Most of them were just like, bleh, they’re just like here, we’re shitting this at you. And then you see the Saturday Night Live and you’re like, this is fucking awesome. And not everybody felt that way. Old Christian women don’t feel that way. But you and your aesthetic was like, I like this. And so you’ll become a fan of that. So if any of those guys are playing in your town, your odds of going to see them, paying money to go see them on stage, went up. They won’t necessarily definitely go see them, but their odds went up. So TV can help that. But so can doing YouTube clips, so can doing podcasts, so can doing lots of things. That’s not the only way. So don’t get locked up with have to get in here, have to get on Tonight Show, have to do this in order to get there.

And also, he said, just because you have shitloads of Twitter followers doesn’t mean you’re ready to stand up on Kendall. That’s another thing with big heads where it’s like, well, I’m doing all this and this. That means my comedy must be good. It’s not a straight line. Let’s just say you’re on Franklin and Bash. Let’s just say that. And let’s say you got a lot of Twitter followers because of it. Or people like you. If you’re on some serious drama. What’s like the number one drama now? NCIS. NCIS, okay. Okay, well those are cool people. NCIS, let’s say. If you’re on that, you will be a regular and people will know who you are. And you’ll get a lot of Twitter followers. That will not make your stand up any better. It won’t. So just don’t get that big head. Continue to think you have room to improve. And whatever way you do it, I don’t want to tell you right jokes. I don’t want to tell you how to do it. You have to sort of find that for yourself. But just continue to improve. What else? Who else has questions?

How much do festivals help?

Here’s how much those festivals help. This is my theory. When I was starting, we didn’t have the internet. It wasn’t that long ago. So what I did is I looked at the LA Weekly every week to see what the stand up shows were. Open mics and stuff. How do you guys find open mics now? From Europe. It shows all the open mics. It does have other cities too, right? Bad Slava. What is it? Bad Slava. B-A-D-S-L-A-V-A. Bad Slava, okay. We had to find a paper and hope. We knew what the sign up process was. We had to be here 15 minutes early. So I would sit and read the LA Weekly. I would see all the people doing book shows. I would see their names. And I would be like, oh, those guys are doing stuff. You know the difference between open mics and book shows, right? Those people are better comics mostly. You see that as some sort of success. Who is on at the Comedy Store? Who is on at NerdMouth or UCB? Who is on at whatever the rooms are? Holy fuck or all those other rooms. You start looking up to those people without having seen their comedy. So I realized that if I did that with other comics, other comics would do that with me. And if you just get on these festivals, if you just continue to get on them, other comics will look at you and they will say you must be doing stuff that is good. Because you are on these festivals. You are at the laughing stall, whatever, even at the bad festivals. And then when they start looking at you as someone who is doing something good and succeeding, they will start treating you differently. And I could see through it because I was shit on for so long. It took me four and a half years before of working here every day, 35 showcases before she finally said okay. I never got up in places. I couldn’t get an agent and all that stuff. But when I started getting on these festivals a little bit and people were like, oh, you are doing stuff, right? And I could hear them. I could see through it. And they said, you don’t know. You have no idea. You haven’t seen me. You are just doing that because of this fucking perceived hype. And it sort of sickens me, but that is the deal. And that is why I wasn’t successful before because other people had the hype. So just fucking take it when it is time. So if you can get on these festivals, absolutely it will be good for you. Because people will see, same thing as doing Conan or doing Kimmel. Everyone bombs on Kimmel. That is what they say. But the reality is if you do those things, if you do Conan, people will say, hey, I heard you did Conan. They won’t see the set. And even if they do, they will just forget it later. They won’t see it. Not that you should do bad. Don’t try to do bad. But it doesn’t matter good or bad. It mostly matters just getting on there. And recently I have seen that with music festivals too. And that is why I did South by Southwest last year and tried to do some of these things. Where it is like just be the guy that everyone thinks is a winner. Perceptions reality. Yeah. It helps for that for festivals. That is what festivals help for. Now things like Laughing Skull or Bridgetown, the ones you have to pay for yourself to go, put yourself up. That is the amount of money you have to decide whether it is worth it or not. The ones that pay, like Moon Tower or Montreal, are way easier on your pocketbook. On your wallet, whatever. And those other ones. But just doing them is a good thing for you.

Plus you get to see these other comics. And you get to showcase for other comics.

That is another reason why it is good. I saw at Laughing Skull, not at Bridgetown, three years ago, Canadian went on and I saw all, I was in the back watching them, and I saw all these people. And I saw them all. And I saw them all. And I saw them all. And I was in the back watching them and I saw all these people in the back. Steve Agee, all these other comics that are respected, all in the back with me watching Kyle Kinane. And I realized he is showcasing for all of us now. It is your chance to show all the other comics what you can do. So do not, the advice I got from Joey Diaz when I did Montreal, they would not let me do interfaces. They said you could do a Nazi show. Just because I was going to the Rogan in Montreal and I pulled my dick out on stage. And they said, oh, I would want you to do a Nazi show. I was like, what? I have been trying to get in with jokes for fucking ten years. I have been trying to get in with jokes for fucking ten years. I have been trying to get in with jokes for fucking ten years. My dick out was enough. My dick out was enough. But Joey Diaz said this, he goes, don’t worry about doing anything new. Do only closers the entire time. You have 12 minutes, just do only closers for those 12 minutes. You have 12 minutes, just do only closers for those 12 minutes. This is the time to show everybody what you have got. So when you have those situations where everybody is there, do not fuck around. Do what you have like, welcome, it is a girl. Do what you have worked for. This is your time to let it parade. So if you do those showcases, know that other comedians, the ones that are making the taste about you, they are there watching. And if those guys say you are hacky, then that is what everyone will think. And if those guys think, I am talking about you guys, if you guys think that these other comments are hacky, eventually that word gets out. And that is what everyone thinks about them. You guys, they are a level above you, a level above that. You guys make taste. You know, whoever UCB thinks is cool, will become cool. So yeah, when it is time for that, just fucking do not hold back. Good questions. Anybody else? What are we doing? I remember that SLO thing, the one of the festivals, it was like the first option I had for a festival. It was like the $50. And as I was paying it, I had this bag of money. I was like, it is so close to the deadline, they are probably just taking money and I am not going to get out. Yeah, that kind of sucks. They take money for festival submissions. I do not like that at all. It is a shitty system. Especially because you are making money off, really the poorest comics in the world. They are like, I am going to make 50 bucks. It is not like, I mean it is not like they are making Zach Galifianakis pay 50 bucks. You know, he will just call. So really, I never like making money off stand up comics. That seems shitty to me. I can see running a free festival, I can see that when it is like we do not bring in a lot. So we have to promote it, we have to put people up, or we have to pay these venues. I get that, but to make people pay to apply, it is like, no. Charge 50 cents more per ticket and make your money that way. But, there is no other way in. So you have to decide how much money, if you have rich parents, they fucking go for it. But if you do not, then you have to raise the money to do it. I did it two years ago. It is one of those things where like, you just kind of look at it as an investment. Like I met the head of comedy, Sirius Radio. I heard it is like more about you pay to get the hangout. Yeah, I got good, it is super fun to do. And I actually got some good stuff for myself. And that is to decide again, if it is worth the money that you may or may not. I got rejected from it this last year. I spent it really late and paid the higher fee. So you have to kind of lower that. But it is a fun place to hangout. With comics, you are getting drunk with no responsibility. Nobody has to go to their job the next day. They are fun. And they are a great way to meet other comics. But yeah, I do not know if it is a waste of money. That is on your own finances. I do not know if it is a waste of money. That is on your own finances. Does this help you guys at all? Yeah, thanks.

Forward any of this information. The people who were not here, share it with them too. I mean that. You are all colleagues. So if they ask you, do not fucking hide this to myself. Like I am going to get better and you are not. Just fucking share it with everybody. Because honestly, if all your friends get better, if you have four friends on a sitcom, they are going to get you a guest star on that sitcom. That is the way it is. You would rather have your own friends being successful than people you do not even know that can’t help you.

I do not know where I heard this, but you make it with the people you start with.

Yeah, pretty much. When Renazisi got on a sitcom, that is his first sitcom, he called me one day and said, dude, this is part for a doctor. It is like six episodes. Give me your headshot immediately. Like I can get it into them. That is because he is my friend. I did not even get it because it had been cast like the day before. But they would look out for you. The people who know you and like you. I mean, obviously, he would not have done that. But it was more about being my friend. So, yeah, you guys want… If all the comedies all of a sudden get really good and start running shit, or Comedy Central and HBO and Showtime have to come to us and say, we will do it your way, whenever you want, that gives us all way more power. If sitcoms stop putting on shitty sitcoms, because all our friends are doing really cool, interesting things, if all of comedy gets better, then we will all better off for it. If we all become better performers, we are all better off for it. We have a better bar to latch ourselves against. Do not be fucking Pauly Shore, once everyone comes down below him, so he can be on top. You want everyone rising up, so you will rise up with them automatically, and then you will try to achieve what they have achieved. Automatically, you will get better if everyone around you gets better. You might not get as much better as they do, but I look at it as like iTunes numbers and rankings for podcasts. I do not give a fuck if you are ranked fifth and I am ranked third, but my numbers go up from, let us say, 20,000 to 100,000, but your numbers go up from 15,000 to 200,000. I do not care if you leapfrog me in the rankings, my numbers went up, so I am better now. I have more draws, so who cares if you have more betterness? You know what I mean? As long as we all get better, we will all be better off for it. Help each other, that is it. All right. Thank you.